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	<title>Comments for MfgVision Ltd</title>
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	<link>http://www.mfgvision.com</link>
	<description>MfgVision :: FloorVision</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:26:52 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Editing STDF and Text Datalogs: Is this a Safe Practice in Production? by ceo</title>
		<link>http://www.mfgvision.com/2012-edting-stdf-and-text-datalogs-is-this-a-safe-practice-in-production.html#comment-1731</link>
		<dc:creator>ceo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mfgvision.com/?p=1236#comment-1731</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Glenn, 

As you say it&#039;s not ideal, but we are in the real world and once there are controls in place of who can do the editing and a record that they did it and what they did, then all should be OK. Any successful company places trust in the right employees to make things work when the unexpected happens which could potentially affect things downstream as you say.

John]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Glenn, </p>
<p>As you say it&#8217;s not ideal, but we are in the real world and once there are controls in place of who can do the editing and a record that they did it and what they did, then all should be OK. Any successful company places trust in the right employees to make things work when the unexpected happens which could potentially affect things downstream as you say.</p>
<p>John</p>
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		<title>Comment on Editing STDF and Text Datalogs: Is this a Safe Practice in Production? by Glenn Crosby</title>
		<link>http://www.mfgvision.com/2012-edting-stdf-and-text-datalogs-is-this-a-safe-practice-in-production.html#comment-1726</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Crosby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mfgvision.com/?p=1236#comment-1726</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Having been responsible for a wafer and parts test floor, I can say that there were many times that I had to edit data logs or wafer maps to correct errors, both machine and human, or to support some special engineering project.  It can be a tedious and error prone activity, so I had IT restrict write privileges into the critical directories.  It&#039;s not ideal, but sometimes has to be done so that the automated systems down stream can actually work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having been responsible for a wafer and parts test floor, I can say that there were many times that I had to edit data logs or wafer maps to correct errors, both machine and human, or to support some special engineering project.  It can be a tedious and error prone activity, so I had IT restrict write privileges into the critical directories.  It&#8217;s not ideal, but sometimes has to be done so that the automated systems down stream can actually work.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Editing STDF and Text Datalogs: Is this a Safe Practice in Production? by ceo</title>
		<link>http://www.mfgvision.com/2012-edting-stdf-and-text-datalogs-is-this-a-safe-practice-in-production.html#comment-1725</link>
		<dc:creator>ceo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mfgvision.com/?p=1236#comment-1725</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Chuck, Don,

Thanks for your comments. We have strict format controls and if a format or a field is updated, a parser change is required. The integrity of the database is at stake otherwise. We also don&#039;t allow our customers update parsers. 

We actually do allow editing data under the following conditons:
1. The data is in your own personal database (engineer&#039;s databases are separate from production in our FloorVision databases), so you are not affecting what others see when reviewing production data
2. You can never copy data from your personal FloorVision database into the production database. 

As to Don&#039;s point about the gray area, yes, that&#039;s true. We typically get data from the automated testers and these datalogs are automatically routed to our servers a few times a day. For testers which generate text files, it is of course open for people to edit this in some cases, we would just warn our customers if that&#039;s a possibility and that the integrity of the database is sacrosanct. We have yet to have seen this as a real on-going issue with any customer. It&#039;s rare from our experience.

If however a particular data format is awkward, we always process anyway all data to an intermediate format, then into the database. This helps with data integrity too and speed of developing parsers. 

Another issue: if data looks wrong to an engineer in our FloorVision database, users can mark it as such and it&#039;s automatically excluded from analysis for everyone. The data is wrong because for example the lot may have been misprocessed, eg reporting a zero yield because of mis-testing or an invalid lotid recorded with only a couple of units tested. Being able to exclude such data greatly improves the analysis, especially of trends over many months of data say.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chuck, Don,</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments. We have strict format controls and if a format or a field is updated, a parser change is required. The integrity of the database is at stake otherwise. We also don&#8217;t allow our customers update parsers. </p>
<p>We actually do allow editing data under the following conditons:<br />
1. The data is in your own personal database (engineer&#8217;s databases are separate from production in our FloorVision databases), so you are not affecting what others see when reviewing production data<br />
2. You can never copy data from your personal FloorVision database into the production database. </p>
<p>As to Don&#8217;s point about the gray area, yes, that&#8217;s true. We typically get data from the automated testers and these datalogs are automatically routed to our servers a few times a day. For testers which generate text files, it is of course open for people to edit this in some cases, we would just warn our customers if that&#8217;s a possibility and that the integrity of the database is sacrosanct. We have yet to have seen this as a real on-going issue with any customer. It&#8217;s rare from our experience.</p>
<p>If however a particular data format is awkward, we always process anyway all data to an intermediate format, then into the database. This helps with data integrity too and speed of developing parsers. </p>
<p>Another issue: if data looks wrong to an engineer in our FloorVision database, users can mark it as such and it&#8217;s automatically excluded from analysis for everyone. The data is wrong because for example the lot may have been misprocessed, eg reporting a zero yield because of mis-testing or an invalid lotid recorded with only a couple of units tested. Being able to exclude such data greatly improves the analysis, especially of trends over many months of data say.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Editing STDF and Text Datalogs: Is this a Safe Practice in Production? by Chuck Kohfeldt</title>
		<link>http://www.mfgvision.com/2012-edting-stdf-and-text-datalogs-is-this-a-safe-practice-in-production.html#comment-1689</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck Kohfeldt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mfgvision.com/?p=1236#comment-1689</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In our business we deal with many customers that would strictly prohibit editing of any test result data.  In the mil-aero, medical, space and mass-transit  industries every anomaly must be traced to its root cause. In the space industry where satellites have long life expectancies all data must also be preserved in case of on-orbit anomalies.  If something happens 10 years into the life of a product the customer may want to review every detail of its production testing.

Editing the production test results in this environment would be an offense that the employee would be reprimanded or maybe even fired over.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In our business we deal with many customers that would strictly prohibit editing of any test result data.  In the mil-aero, medical, space and mass-transit  industries every anomaly must be traced to its root cause. In the space industry where satellites have long life expectancies all data must also be preserved in case of on-orbit anomalies.  If something happens 10 years into the life of a product the customer may want to review every detail of its production testing.</p>
<p>Editing the production test results in this environment would be an offense that the employee would be reprimanded or maybe even fired over.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Editing STDF and Text Datalogs: Is this a Safe Practice in Production? by Don Stanley</title>
		<link>http://www.mfgvision.com/2012-edting-stdf-and-text-datalogs-is-this-a-safe-practice-in-production.html#comment-1688</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Stanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:47:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mfgvision.com/?p=1236#comment-1688</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Unfortunately, this is one of the grey areas between engineering and manufacturing.  The ideal situation is that the production software on the test system should restrict or reformat the input so it is correct for the text data log. In manufacturing, to change the system once it is in place may be difficult or impossible. This is due to several factors outside of the scope of this discussion. 

Another scenario is simply training. If a particular text format is required then workers need to be trained to use that format. Even this is not a guarantee.

 There is however the third option, which is a post process of the text data log by software to enforce the required format. In the case where it is not possible to modify the software/firmware producing the original data for the log, then post processing might be the most reliable second option.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, this is one of the grey areas between engineering and manufacturing.  The ideal situation is that the production software on the test system should restrict or reformat the input so it is correct for the text data log. In manufacturing, to change the system once it is in place may be difficult or impossible. This is due to several factors outside of the scope of this discussion. </p>
<p>Another scenario is simply training. If a particular text format is required then workers need to be trained to use that format. Even this is not a guarantee.</p>
<p> There is however the third option, which is a post process of the text data log by software to enforce the required format. In the case where it is not possible to modify the software/firmware producing the original data for the log, then post processing might be the most reliable second option.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Analyzing STDF Data?  Unique Test Numbers Can Improve Productivity by ceo</title>
		<link>http://www.mfgvision.com/2012-analyzing-stdf-data-unique-test-numbers-can-improve-productivity.html#comment-1685</link>
		<dc:creator>ceo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2012 16:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mfgvision.com/?p=924#comment-1685</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Les, 

Unfortunately the test numbers generated are not unique in some circumstances and our software has to deal with that, and does so quite successfully where it is possible to do it. However, customers who have this problem seem to always attempt to rectify it when the dangers of doing this are made clear to them. 

We also encounter repeated records for the same die. This is very common especially in wafer sort. We include tools to analyse the succes rate of re-probe in this case. We also see this sometimes in final test.

The original data is always sacrosanct and that data is kept. If data is to be edited, it should be the data in what we call the user&#039;s personal database (as opposed to the production database) and it&#039;s data in the database which is edited, not the original data. The user can always re-process the original data and the original data is there for auditing purposes, separate from the relational analysis database.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Les, </p>
<p>Unfortunately the test numbers generated are not unique in some circumstances and our software has to deal with that, and does so quite successfully where it is possible to do it. However, customers who have this problem seem to always attempt to rectify it when the dangers of doing this are made clear to them. </p>
<p>We also encounter repeated records for the same die. This is very common especially in wafer sort. We include tools to analyse the succes rate of re-probe in this case. We also see this sometimes in final test.</p>
<p>The original data is always sacrosanct and that data is kept. If data is to be edited, it should be the data in what we call the user&#8217;s personal database (as opposed to the production database) and it&#8217;s data in the database which is edited, not the original data. The user can always re-process the original data and the original data is there for auditing purposes, separate from the relational analysis database.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Analyzing STDF Data?  Unique Test Numbers Can Improve Productivity by Les Howell</title>
		<link>http://www.mfgvision.com/2012-analyzing-stdf-data-unique-test-numbers-can-improve-productivity.html#comment-396</link>
		<dc:creator>Les Howell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2012 16:20:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mfgvision.com/?p=924#comment-396</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Test numbers must be unique in STDF.  In the event of retest, STDF is supposed to replace the original data with the final version.  This is designed in behavior.  All the data is present in the file, but the analysis software as designed by Teradyne is expected to accept the last data for any test number.  Comments are for human consumption only.

Also if you modify an stdf file you should update the log record to reflect that act.  Failing to do so is not ethical.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Test numbers must be unique in STDF.  In the event of retest, STDF is supposed to replace the original data with the final version.  This is designed in behavior.  All the data is present in the file, but the analysis software as designed by Teradyne is expected to accept the last data for any test number.  Comments are for human consumption only.</p>
<p>Also if you modify an stdf file you should update the log record to reflect that act.  Failing to do so is not ethical.</p>
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